[rules] Retaliation, Range & Reach

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[rules] Retaliation, Range & Reach

Post by Telgar on Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:28 pm

(I am posting in the General section but I believe a sub section RULES in the GAMEPLAY section would be appropriate)

Rules wrote:Only a Melee attack can be retaliated against.
The unit must still be in the same Area as the attacker at the end of the attack.

I am wondering about the "same area" part of the retaliation...
So if 2 Titans (which all have range 1 "melee" attack due to their size) are fighting from adjacent spaces, they cannot retaliate.
I find this a bit odd and would imagine that they can retaliate up to their reach.
(this concern also some gods and beast with range 1 and maybe units on a hill)

Actually, I find that the arrow icon covers 2 notions indeed : range (for distance attacks) and reach (for melee attack). It comes back to the rules discussions about range/melee and about Evasion for flying units...


Last edited by Telgar on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [rules] Retaliation, Range & Reach

Post by MaxC on Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:33 pm

Any attack not performed in the unit's own area is always considered a ranged attack. In the case of 2 range 1 units attacking each other from different areas, that wouldn't count as melee attacks regardless, so you wouldn't be able to retaliate in the first place.
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Re: [rules] Retaliation, Range & Reach

Post by Telgar on Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:58 pm

I understand perfectly how it works in the current state of the rules.
However I am finding this is not a good reflection of the fight (as the stats reflects attack reach and not ranged attack).
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Re: [rules] Retaliation, Range & Reach

Post by Telgar on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:26 am

Here is a global analysis of the units modes of attack:

Assumption :
Range 1 is a melee attack with reach in adjacent space,
Range 2+ is a distance attack

This seems mostly confirmed:
Most units with range 1 are massive Units (Titans, Gods, Big monsters).
There is also some units with lances (or is it spears ?).
In case of spears, it can be argued that they are thrown and that it is a range attack, not melee.
These specific exceptions (non massive, range 1) are : Eurytion, Centaurs, Leonidas, Oedipus, Pandora (but Pandora attack looks magical), Rhadamantus (chain), Orion (or is the 1/2 giant massive ?), Mecanical warriors, Satyrs and Spartoi (when 6+).

So my interpretation is not perfect and can have a few exceptions unfortunately.
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Re: [rules] Retaliation, Range & Reach

Post by Telgar on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:50 am

About talents and other situations:

Climb on stairs and impassable areas: When a range 0 unit gains +1 range, I personnaly view this as guerilla warfare: drop rocks, jump on the adjacent units. A mix of melee and distance attacks.

Full area: +1 range for adjacent units which means (in my view) that a melee unit will move and fight at the border. Rules already state that it is a melee attack and I recall a statement that retaliation is possible.

Flying Evasion: rules are indeed pointing to "range 2+ attacks" so making the distinction with range 1 attacks.

Archer, Close Combat: a definition of melee/ranged attack is required.

Force of Nature: this is indeed a ranged attack. (Out of the concern units, these ends up with range=1 : Ajax, Antaeus, Herald of Typhon, Tityos)
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