Testing for balance?

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Testing for balance?

Post by Abzanelar on Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:33 am

Will there be changes if they need to make some for balance issues? I actually think Athena is broken. There are a few others that seem really good.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Rhynns on Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:54 am

Abzanelar, mind to throw in an example as to why it may be broken? They did already alot of testing on scenario's and alike. Not saying they don't make changes, im sure they keep revising an "testing/playing" till te last minute. But it's worth to shout out how it is broken.

We can always forward these things to the creators.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Morten Brandt on Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:36 am

I am very curious about the powerlevel of the titans. Typhon could be an issue, with so much strenght centered in one piece.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Shifare on Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:40 pm

The strong creatures may seem really overpowered... but they do come with strings attached...
Picking a titan means you can pick less monsters for your army... which should make it balanced again.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Caine-HoA on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:30 pm

So this is the balance discussion thread?

Looking through the units i also percieved some outliers. Of course its hard to say without acutally testing them. But some units just seem to have a little extra over similar other units.

Also im a bit worried that it will get an op counter-pick festival with so many very specialized units.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Shifare on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:44 pm

If you are afraid of an OP mega team in open draft you can also try a blind draft (each person gets x amount of creatures in hand and you pick one and gift the hand to your neighbour while receiving your next hand from your other neighbour).
This way you can only assemble your own perfect team without knowing what the other players might pick.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Caine-HoA on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Of course there are enough ways to influence the draft in casual play. Im not worried about that.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Rhynns on Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:20 pm

Ill gladly take "Unkilles" ( Achilles ). :p
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Morten Brandt on Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:53 pm

Blind draft is an option, I thought about bans as another. Maybe it's not needed, since you get to counterpick according to any gods, titans or giants which are picked as leaders. It's quite different to writing a list for a warhammer tournament or bringing a strong premade MtG deck to an evening of gaming.
So it will take something out of the ordinary to bring unbalance to a game of knowable gamers. But as others mentioned above the power curve could come from strong counter picks. There are some very slippery scouts/oompa loompa stealers, as well as some rock hard dragon/snake defenders.

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by MaxC on Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:22 pm

They have been playtesting these units for over a year and will no doubt continue until we recievee the final product, so I wouldn't be too concerned. They did mention they would put out errata if any balance issues come to light post-launch.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Teowulff on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:28 pm

MaxC wrote:They have been playtesting these units for over a year and will no doubt continue until we recievee the final product, so I wouldn't be too concerned. They did mention they would put out errata if any balance issues come to light post-launch.
Well I wonder: did they extensively test ALL these 100+ units?

I have reviewed almost all the units in these threads. Although I encountered some seriously "underpowered" units that I don't see getting a lot of playtime, I didn't really find any of them overpowered.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Quirkworthy on Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:08 pm

All the units have seen some table time. Some more than others, sure, but all have been played.

Obviously we haven't tried every possible combination of the units against every other possible combination as that would take decades. If you think something is either dramatically under or over powered, then let us know why. If we agree, then we can try them out to see if their imagined weakness manifests during play. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. Getting them on the table is really the best test.

Of course, if you get the PnP up and running then please let us know how your own games go Smile

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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by joebo3001 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:39 pm

Heyo! QW is here now!

But so far the only thing I've seen are units being really overpowered on the table, but you can easily counter them by not falling into their traps.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Telgar on Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:31 pm

Abzanelar wrote:I actually think Athena is broken

I believe Athena and all the heroes focussing on troop-managements are more difficult to play. That does not mean they are weak Rolling Eyes
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by joebo3001 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:42 pm

I would say that Bellaraphone is broken. The guy was able to grab all of the omphalos and take them back to his god while I was still getting people on the board. All he needed was Bellaraphone and a god card in his opening hand.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Teowulff on Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:22 am

joebo3001 wrote:I would say that Bellaraphone is broken. The guy was able to grab all of the omphalos and take them back to his god while I was still getting people on the board. All he needed was Bellaraphone and a god card in his opening hand.
But how can that be? Bellerophon has 5 activations; he may be able to get 2 omphalos on his own:
1. summon 2. fly to omphalos and take it 3. fly back 4. fly to next omphalos and take it 5. fly back

Next to that only Hermes, Artemis, Ares, Kronos and Typhon have 5 activations so they could absorb 4 omphalos during the 1st deck shuffle.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by joebo3001 on Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:02 am

Teowulff wrote:
joebo3001 wrote:I would say that Bellaraphone is broken. The guy was able to grab all of the omphalos and take them back to his god while I was still getting people on the board. All he needed was Bellaraphone and a god card in his opening hand.
But how can that be? Bellerophon has 5 activations; he may be able to get 2 omphalos on his own:
1. summon 2. fly to omphalos and take it 3. fly back 4. fly to next omphalos and take it 5. fly back

Next to that only Hermes, Artemis, Ares, Kronos and Typhon have 5 activations so they could absorb 4 omphalos during the 1st deck shuffle.

The thing the guy was doing was moving and grabbing, but not using his full move to drop it off. He would move drop and move closer to the next one. He used bellerophon in conjunction with AoW to grab and absorb in one turn. He was really quick to collect 3 gems before I was even able to do anything because of how quick pegasus is and how he can move every turn. I found a way to get over that though, Python stops that. So I did that in the next game but before I could even lock the 2 space slot down he moved Belleraphon in and killed him. The only unit I've seen that can easily kill him is the Sphinx. Other than that he is an über mobile, hard to hit, pain in the ass.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Rhalius on Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:59 pm

Mainly I am worried about a few units not being usefull enough, but in general I think they balanced it out very nicely.

Penthesilea is probably the one I worry about the most, and Atalanta. There just seem to be much better units to get for the same RP points and they are not counter draft units either that gives them a great specific use.


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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by joebo3001 on Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:41 pm

Rhalius wrote:Mainly I am worried about a few units not being usefull enough, but in general I think they balanced it out very nicely.

Penthesilea is probably the one I worry about the most, and Atalanta. There just seem to be much better units to get for the same RP points and they are not counter draft units either that gives them a great specific use.


I gotta say, at least with just base game and nothing added; I really, really enjoy drafting Atalanta. Sure she doesn't get the most bang! But you can finish off two units with her if they are low enough. Just pop a card and then you shoot, move, and slice. I've used her as cleanup for troops and stray heroes or monsters before. Just keep her away from gods because they can make short work of her.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Teowulff on Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:50 pm

joebo3001 wrote:The thing the guy was doing was moving and grabbing, but not using his full move to drop it off. He would move drop and move closer to the next one.
I wonder though, if you can move --> grab omphalos --> move further.

It may be that those are two move actions seperated by a "Claim an Omphalos" action. Not sure if the rulebook allows for that (I may have missed that part). Because similar question: can a unit with the Mobility talent do move --> attack --> move again?
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Telgar on Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:06 pm

For me, the rules are clear enough : you cannot move twice, and you cannot split your move.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by joebo3001 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:50 pm

Telgar wrote:For me,  the rules are clear enough : you cannot move twice, and you cannot split your move.

Where is that at? I've always thought you could move with any left over move you have so long as you don't attack.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Telgar on Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:08 pm

You're right, this isn't so clear. You can perform 2 simple actions. For me these are performed sequentially (so claiming an Omphalos ends your move). Let's see if the new version of the rulebook (expected tomorrow) will be disambiguous.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by joebo3001 on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:39 am

I really hope so too. Because currently the way I've been playing paired with 5 back to back activations and the super high movement belleraphon has he is just really annoying. And then on top of that you suffer -2 attack and since he's flying he can just say nope, you don't fight me.

Can someone clear that last bit up for me, if a flying unit is attacking another flying unit, can the defender still evade? I assume so the way the rules are, but I would hope not because they can evade ground units, but other airborne units can give chase.
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Re: Testing for balance?

Post by Telgar on Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:46 am

The evade maneuver is planned to be reworked but even in its current state it is clear:
For the duration of a turn, the Evade maneuver allows a Flying unit to avoid a Melee attack from a Land or Aquatic unit with a Range of 2 or less.

So unapplicable for flying vs flying
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